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Paris Terror Attacks Mastermind Killed in Raid; ISIS Threatens New York City; Survivor of Paris Terror Attacks at Stadium Speaks Out About Experience. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired November 19, 2015 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Level there.

Let's bring in counterterrorism expert and French former - a former French commando, Fabrice Magnier. We have CNN terrorism analyst Mr. Paul Cruikshank. And CNN chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto.

We're getting a lot of information here. The headline is obviously. The guy who at least helped plan these attacks, dead. We're learning about how it went down. What do you know, Fabrice.

FABRICE MAGNIER, COUNTER TERRORISM EXPERT: We - that guy has been - has been killed after a very intense fight yesterday morning. You know, we heard about 5,000 bullets. And the fear of the S.W.A.T. team now is explosives that can wear on them. So yesterday (INAUDIBLE) where the terrorists tried many times to get out the building to assault the special unit. So the special unit respond by heavy fire to keep them inside the building just to not make them explode in front of them because the fear of the S.W.A.T. team now worldwide is a risk of having 50 percent of their guy, agents, killed by those kind of bombing. So that's why it took so long to get them. So that means they were really, really aggressive inside. They wanted to fight the special unit, to kill them massively with their - with their explosives. So that's why we are such (INAUDIBLE) in that (INAUDIBLE) they have - they explosives.

CUOMO: Part of the new reality, Paul, and the threat of these - maybe they start off as local criminals, but they go to Syria, they get trained as real fighters and they come back. They're not ready to be victims. They actually want to be the aggressors.

PAUL CRUIKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, that's right. And this was an example of a containment strategy which actually worked, right, in Paris. The other containment strategy in Syria and Iraq is not working because ISIS is spreading across borders. It's in Libya now. It's in Egypt now. It's in Yemen now. It's in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Nigeria, east Africa. The list goes on. It's back in Europe in a significant way with these (INAUDIBLE) coming back. And there's a lot of concern now that this is just the beginning.

CUOMO: Well, wait a minute. Hold on. If - if - if you know this, right? OK, you know this. You hear it from analysts and experts all the time. Then make sense for me of what we hear from the United States, whether it's, you know, the spokesperson, Jen Psaki, or whomever it is saying it is working. They are contained. We are making progress. This number, 25 percent. What's - reconcile these two things?

CRUIKSHANK: Containment doesn't work with a terrorist group like ISIS. You can't deter them like you deter a nation state like the Soviet Union because they welcome that, they welcome this apocalyptic confrontation. And they have this terrorist safe haven and it's worse than the safe haven than al Qaeda had before 9/11. It's absolutely intolerable, I think, for the people of Europe now, right on their doorstep, to have a budding, emerging terrorist state with all these resources, all these recruits and now they're putting their foot on the gas in terms of attacks against Europe, against the west, threatening also Russia. They're going, it would appear, all out at the moment, welcoming a confrontation. Perhaps they want the Russian, the Americans the French to come in, send ground troops.

They do have this apocalyptic vision. They believe there will be this last confrontation I Syria between the west, the armies of Rome and the armies of the Muslims and they believe that that is going to be close to the last days. And so there's an element of their leadership which really do buy into this and they believe that God, in the end, will see them prevail. This is a death cult, as many people have spoken.

CUOMO: So you have reach, but then you also have, in terms of control, they keep saying this, 25 percent, we're containing it, this is proof of containment. What's the reality?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: You know, it's just so disconnected from the way this war is being fought by ISIS, right? I mean ISIS is fighting it on multiple fronts. They're in Iraq and Syria. And by design, it's not by accident, that they have created affiliates in Libya, in Sinai and elsewhere because they know that that makes it harder for them to be extinguished, to be snuffed out. This is part of their plan.

And an additional part of that plan is to take on the world. I mean look at that list of countries, France certainly, the U.S., Russia, they brought down a plane. They just executed, beheaded a Chinese national. You are taking on the super powers. They want that conflict. They want that war.

CUOMO: Well, who knows, maybe in a very perverse and terrible way they are doing what needs to be done, which is galvanizing the resistance of the world against them, because, as we all know, we just heard World War II brought up as an analogy of force working only when the entire world was united. Not only is that when the United States joined, but that's when it made the difference against the Nazis. We'll see what happens here.

Gentlemen, stay with me.

We are waiting on the French interior minister to speak. The French here have been very good about giving a lot of information. We're hear what this means to them and how it went because there's still open variables. Did this man explode himself? Was he hit by the explosive bomb of his female cousin? Or was he just shot up by the forces outside his door? We'll have that for you, next.

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[08:38:55] MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news, the ringleader of the Paris terror attacks is dead, killed in a police raid outside Paris Wednesday morning. We are awaiting word and to hear from the French interior minister. He is expected to speak in moments in time. We can see the podium there. When that happens, we will bring it to you live.

All of this as ISIS releases a new video threatening New York City. Want to turn to Bill Gavin. He was assistant director for the FBI in New York at the time of the 1993 World Trade Center attacks.

Mr. Gavin, it's really a pleasure to have you here. To get some perspective and your - and context, obviously we know this is not the first threat. It's not necessarily a new threat. Some of this video was recycled from back in April, if you will, some of that footage. The goal, obviously, is to invoke terror and fear. What do you make of it, sir?

BILL GAVIN, FMR. ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, FBI IN NEW YORK: Well, Michaela, the goal, as you said, you're right on target, it's to evoke fear, terror within the people of the United States and worldwide. Let's face it, they have done many, many things, caused a lot of havoc in France. They've brought down the jetliner. They did the damage in Beirut. Basically, the fear, the shock and awe is what they live by. And we cannot let ourselves fall prey to - to that shock and awe, to that terroristic attack. The people in New York City, for instance we have the Macy's Day Parade coming up next week. People in New York City ought to feel free to go out and do it. New York City has a tremendous police department and a tremendous intelligence network. And right now -

[08:40:32] PEREIRA: I think - well, I just want to interrupt you for a second because that is the parallel so many people are thinking about. We look at what happened in Paris, soft targets, cafes, restaurants, a stadium. People understand - a concert hall even. These are people just carrying on their regular, everyday events. Much like what we're going to see happening here, as you mention, the Thanksgiving Day Parade. As much as people want to carry on their work a day lives, there's going to be anxiety. How can people quell that? Maybe this is where you and your expertise can help us understand the amount of resources that will be on hand.

GAVIN: The resources that will be on hand, not only what you can see. That's the - that's an important part to see the visual aspect for people to understand how many police officers are out there in uniform doing what they do so well in New York. What you don't see is the technical side of things. What they're doing behind the scenes. How many informants they have working. How many undercover police officers in those situations, in those places that when something starts to erupt, they're on top of it. They can prevent it from happening.

So I think there's a - there are - it's a lot going on that can't be seen by everybody walking down the street. But New Yorkers, resilient people. They have adopted, bought into full measure, if you see something, say something. And nothing is more important than having millions of eyes, as opposed to the 33,000, 35,000 police officers eyes that are on the scene today. I - I think we are (INAUDIBLE) safe.

PEREIRA: Do you - do you anticipate that we'll see - do you anticipate that we'll see further security checks set up, for example, around the Macy's Day Parade? People flood into the city. Thousands upon thousands of people converge on this city to stand on the sidelines to watch that parade happen in real time. Do you expect there are going to be more security checks in place?

GAVIN: I think there will be security checks as need. If, in fact, you know, we don't want to talk about profiling, but I think situational profiling is absolutely something that needs to be done. If somebody sees somebody - if the police department or if the observers of the parade see folks that are doing something that just doesn't make any sense, then they ought to be questioned a little bit further, have a little bit more security, have a little bit more contact with the police to determine that they are not a threat. That's what's so important in this. We are - sometimes we tend to be afraid of, well, they're going to violate our civil rights. They're not violating any civil rights with situational profiling. They are protecting the citizens of the United States and I applaud them for what they do and do so well.

PEREIRA: Bill Gavin, thanks for joining us. We appreciate it. I'm sure we'll be talking with you in the days - coming days and weeks. We appreciate it.

Chris.

GAVIN: Thanks, Michaela, my pleasure.

PEREIRA: We'll send it back to you in Paris.

CUOMO: All right, Mic.

Big headline out of here this morning, the man who planned these attacks last Friday, dead according to French authorities. We are waiting to hear from - how this all went down. French officials are about to speak. We'll bring it to you live on CNN, next.

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[08:47:13] CUOMO: Major headline coming out of Paris. The man responsible for planning Friday's attacks is dead according to French authorities. The prosecutor's office saying he was killed in that raid in Saint-Denis. He has been identified by forensics. That was needed to be done because he was riddled with bullets according to officials.

Remember, that was like a war zone. It was a true fire fight. It lasted hours. Five thousand munitions used by authorities and they say necessary, not gratuitous, because people they were dealing with people who wanted to come out of those apartments that they had infiltrated and take on the authorities on the street and take it to them. So that is what needed to be done and this man paid the price.

We are waiting on the French Interior Minister. The French authorities have been very good about giving detailed information about what is going on here. As soon as that is up we'll bring it to you live.

However, we want some context for you. We have a rare opportunity right now. Why is this so important? What was done to France? What did they survive? What does it mean going forward? So many different questions that you will get great perspective on from one man. Someone who saw the bombers up close, who survived, who feels what it is as an attack of his lifestyle as a Frenchman and as a Muslim. He has so much to say. This one story really will tell you what the experience here has been. It starts off with a man taking his son to a soccer game and ends in everything we've been reporting today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: When you saw the men who had the vests who wanted to kill others, do you see them as Muslims? Because that is what they say they are.

BLEY BILAL MOKONO, STADIUM SURVIVOR (through translator): No, they are not all like Muslims. You cannot conflate a Muslim with someone who's lost their mind and lost all sense of meaning in their life.

That night, on Friday the 13th, looking at this individual, his face sweating, this individual, if he had wanted to blow himself up, and he had a remote control to trigger the timer on his bomb, he would blown himself up when he was in a crowd. But there was this timer on his bomb. It would detonate of its own accord. And when I saw him, he gave me the impression of guilt. Of not wanting to go all the way. He was anxious, disturbed, questioning what he was doing. And he went to a place where he was going to blow himself up. He waited there about to blow himself up.

It is complicated to explain to you what I saw to tell you this terrorist who went to a place to kill people, and yet there were very few people where he ultimately went to blow himself up? So for me this is not a Muslim. This is about indoctrination. This is about brainwashing.

CUOMO: You are at the game, you're at the soccer match, the football match. Tell me what happened that night, what you saw and what happened.

[08:50:02] MOKONO: That Friday night was the night when I decided to take my son to see the famous Stade de France. My son had never seen it. At 8:20 p.m., by the time we got to the entrance to the stands at the corner at gate D of the stadium. By this time the match had begun. When by now the match had begun, my friend Rasheed (ph), who was there with me and my son, the three of us, we went to a first stand entrance. We were turned away because it was closing. We went to a second stand entrance and the guy there said it was closing but there that was a snack bar nearby. I leave them and I go to the toilets of a brasserie. I arrive at the toilet and I push the door and I come face to face

with this individual. His beard is dripping with sweat. This was not reassuring and prompted me to wonder what was going on. And I could see he was very anxious, disturbed. I said to my son, Ryan, you can go to the toilet. Ryan came and he went into the toilet and I held the door open for him. As I did that I could see there was a second guy walking back and forth behind us and brushed by us, me, Rasheed and my son.

So I said to Rasheed at this point, this second individual, he is strange, this man. And the man who served us the sandwiches said yes, these people are strange. At this point when he said that I didn't think much of it. Didn't question it too much. But when I went out and saw the man again who had been behind me but now saw him face to face, he jostled my shoulder again. Brushed by me. And because I found I him so strange, I wanted to stop him, hold him, and tell him not to go. And something in my head told me go quickly. So I went quickly and stood in front of the stand.

CUOMO: You wanted to grab the man that you saw because you felt that something was wrong with him, but you didn't?

MOKONO: Exactly. I wanted to get hold of him because I could sense there was something not right with his attitude and at the moment when I was about to bite into my sandwich and Rasheed was just a few meters away from me with his bottle of Fanta orange and me with my bottle of water and my (INAUDIBLE) sandwich and my son had not come back from the toilet, at that point, boom! The bomb exploded and it was in fact him who had blown up. He had blown himself up.

CUOMO: How close to you?

MOKONO: Ten meters. Really close to him. But what saved us was our lucky star. We are living miracles. And the stand was right near the explosion. And when the bomb went off, my shoulders and body propelled back. After I came forward to see where the explosion was I walked back around to the entrance of the brasserie and that is when I saw the corpse on the floor. The body on the ground, the body with, and I don't dare describe to you what I saw or tell people the flesh I saw exploded everywhere. It was carnage.

I rescued a woman on the ground, helped her. She was injured. Blood everywhere on her face, behind her head. She could not hear. I stretched down my hand to her, lifted her up. Just a few minutes after as I was pulling her up to go and at that moment a second explosion. Boom! And we felt it again. We were propelled forward again and then I accompanied this woman. I took her to the French police, the CRS. And when they took her, I said to them I am going back to get my son. I saw my son Ryan, tears in his eyes. I had tears in my eyes. And I take hold of my son and I say I love you, my son. I love. Daddy is here. And I took him in my arms and he said to me, daddy, I love you. I love you too. But it was very hard. And what was really difficult was to feel so powerless.

(END VIDEOTAPE) CUOMO: Imagine living through something like Bley Mokono did, looking for his son. First of all, he is a huge man, by the way, which has helped him withstand the explosive force and allowed him to move back forward. But he had so much to say about what he takes from this experience and the resolve it gives him to live going forward as a Frenchman and what it means to him as a Muslim.

Now we're going to talk about that with him. There is a second part to this story because he's just such a fascinating character and he lived through something so central to the worst part of this experience that befell Paris society. So we'll be telling you about that.

But of course what we're waiting on here for the news is from the French Interior Minister. He's going to take the podium any moment now. We're going to bring it to you live here on CNN and hear firsthand how it is that French authorities were able to take out the man that planned these horrible attacks this past Friday. So stay with us. As soon as he comes to that podium, we're going to bring it to you. You'll hear it right from this French Interior Minister.

And remember, let me just reset this for you. The headline is that the man who planned these attacks on Friday is now dead. Was he the only one that planned them? Authorities say no. They believe, as often, there is a brain structure here. There is a hierarchy. But this man they believe was central. They had thought he was in Syria. They then found out on actionable intelligence that he was here, in fact, in Paris.

[08:55:10] They then located him through surveillance and cell phone messages to these apartments in Saint-Denis, just outside Paris. Led to a massive operation. They get there, they find not just him, they find a waiting team that they believe they got to just in the nick of time before another operation.

The result was a massive battle ground there. 5,000 munitions fired -- bullets -- by the authorities. Why did they need to? Why did they need to use grenades and explosives? Because that is what they were getting from them. There was a woman terrorist in there. She exploded a vest. They had long weapons, they had big small arms fire.

And we now know that this team of terrorists were trying to get out of these apartments to take on the military assets on the street. These are the types of fighters that these terrorists are now using for themselves who have gone to Syria and abroad and learned how to fight as if this were a war. Not just a bunch of street criminals anymore. And yet, the French authorities were able to persevere and take out this man. And that leads us to the news today.

When we get the French Interior Minister up in front of that podium, we'll bring him to you for CNN's continuing coverage of this story. Stay with us.

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